Understeer vs Oversteer on the Touge

Just curious about your thoughts on this.....

When pushing the car and approaching your traction limits do you prefer understeer or oversteer? And I guess part 2 to this question is have you tuned your vehicle towards one or the other?

Personally, I prefer a vehicle tuned towards understeer when it has exceeded the available traction. I should also add that I only prefer this on the street. In a track setting (HPDE or Autox) things are a bit different..... Firstly, there is A LOT more room for error and correction. On the track, I like less lateral resistance in the rear for more rotation. A car tuned in this way simply requires a bit of countersteering. You can even force it if you'd like with some lift-off oversteer or feint drifting your way through the turns.

Now on the touge, and this is strictly my opinion.... I feel oversteer is dangerous; even if you are a skilled driver. A planned drift around a turn can be controlled and kept within a single lane. But what about unplanned oversteer correction? I find that the space needed is anywhere from 1.5 to 2 standard lanes. On mountain roads this is practically the entire road... and god forbid if you over correct. Even someone with experience may panic when going over the double yellow.

Although boring (as most enthusiast refer to it as) it is much easier to regain control of a car experiencing understeer. Simply reduce your steering and/or throttle input and ease yourself back into the line. Safety being top priority, I find it useful to be tuned towards a little understeer if you do a lot of touge driving.

So ya... thoughts?

And I know this is very vague considering the different handling characteristics of every vehicle. We can get into the details a little if you'd like though

It depends on the car. I like it neutral, but if I have to have 1 or the other I would prefer a little over steer. I really dislike under steer and personally I find over steer easier to correct. However, I have never owned a rwd car with any power to speak of.

I think either can get you into a lot of trouble depending on the car and the situation. If you're running a fwd car and go into a corner too hot in the mtns you can under steer right off the side as easily as over steer in rwd could put you across the double yellows.

I think it's all personal preference and I like over steer if I have to choose. If you aren't running 8/10ths+ you should be allowing enough room to account for mistakes. To each their own though.

I find it easier to stay in that "sweet spot" with a little understeer. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it's like you can be slightly understeering and making the proper corrections for an extended period.

For example.... on a long sweeping bend:

Oversteer- The rear starts to rotate....you counter steer to correct it, but have now lost your line and scrubbed speed.

Understeer- You feel the slide, easy off the throttle or reduce input, and the car just eases back into the line with little speed loss.

That's what I've experienced in my vehicle at least.

And idk if it's just me, but oversteer correction feels very "snappy" when you regain traction.

I'm actually going to have my alignment adjusted for a little more rotation as I've just put on sticker tires, so the rear grip is a little much. Trying to find that happy medium ahhahah.

balance is key... I've heard that somewhere before   

personally understeer

I look at it like this, cars from the factory are usually designed to do this inherently because it is a normal human reaction to stab the brakes in that situation which tends to result in the front regaining traction and control

The problem with understeer is once you start there really isnt a way to stop it well, stabbing the brakes would only work for FR car. FWD or AWD it just gives the front tires 1 more than to worry about.

I personally prefer neutral with a hair of oversteer tendancy.

JP does have a great point, our slogan isnt "Balance is Key" for no reason...

Understeer is evil, I have escaped it's grasp many time but NOT BY Stabbing the brakes.. well, not alone, I stepped on the brake then dropped second and floored it.. close call.

If I have to choose, a bit of oversteer is more comfortable.

My favorite was always a bit of 4 wheel slide! : )

This is something that was posted by a driver that I found very interesting. Let me know your thoughts on it:

"An oversteering car has SLOWER transient response than an understeering car. I know that doesn't seem right, it feels to the driver that a car that oversteers responds quicker, but that is simply driver perception.

You have to think about it for a moment. An understeering car builds lateral g as soon as you turn the wheel, since front tire slip change is directly related to steering angle change.

An oversteering car has to yaw first and this increasing yaw angle increases rear wheel slip angle, and THEN the car builds lateral g. As a result, the transient response of an understeering car is actually faster than an oversteering car. What most drivers are feeling on turn in with an oversteering car is actually yaw overshoot. It overcomes the driver input and the car is rotating so it "feels" like it is responding quicker. Actually it is not.

This is somewhat akin to drivers that stab in steering lock to "set" the car. We've all had students who do that thinking it makes them faster. This builds a lot of yaw angle and gets the car rotating, which makes the driver comfortable that the car is going to turn, but that jab at the wheel really only upsets the car and requires that he slows down more on corner entry before he puts that higher initial steering input into the car.

A common response to a driver saying that the car isn't turning in quickly is to add some toe out to the front end. Front end toe out increases transient understeer and improves the transient response. The driver feels that the car is responding faster with the toe out because it is.

Please don't confuse and assume that I'm saying you want the car to push. I'm just saying that the balance should be just a bit on the understeer side of netural. You want the car to have a lot of front end bite, but the back end to follow you and not be stepping out. The driver should be able to feel that the front tires are working just a bit harder, but not so much more that you are abusing the front tires. In that case the car just goes anywhere he points it with the wheel, and it does it quickly. If he is a bit too hot, he can lift and get the front end to hook back up. The car going exactly where it is pointed, builds a lot of driver confidence and that's important too."

This is the direction I'm heading with my FC. I just have a bit too much understeer at the moment which will be tuned out on the next alignment by adding positive rear camber.

Thoughts?

It makes sense. I've had situations where I've come into a corner too hot and start to understeer and letting off the gas pulled it back in. Both in an FR and FF car. AWD that's just create lift off oversteer which I've also experienced lol

Do you mean dialing back the rear camber?

Touch of understeer is how my car is setup. No snap oversteer. If I start power over steering, I can lift of a little mid corner and bring the tail back in. If I go into a corner too hot, under steering will help scrub off speed so that I can find the line again.

Stormhammer wrote:

It makes sense. I've had situations where I've come into a corner too hot and start to understeer and letting off the gas pulled it back in. Both in an FR and FF car. AWD that's just create lift off oversteer which I've also experienced lol

Do you mean dialing back the rear camber?

Ya, I may have said that backwards lol. Going from -3 to -1.3. I had to install a rear adjustable link to be able to make rear camber adjustments.

I've been thinking of worst case scenarios... coming from FF I preferred over for sure.

I like the quote and I see how much sense that makes! : )